@ samir Luckily, most of them are. But sometimes I can't disclose them. Especially if they have an happy ending, I protect the customer and/or the persons involved. We all can make mistakes. But if we perseverate and continue to insist we're right even when disasters happen...well... 😉
@ stefano Oooohhhh man, don't get me started. That's the kind of crap that pisses me of to no end! :flan_rage: We've been doing these things for years and have years of expertise to know what's secure and what's not. Trust us when we tell you that something like SSH is secure, especially when it's already been hardened and tested in specific cases like this. Your customer might be reading this, but I have no qualm in stating how disrespectful that is to you and the expertise you have which has been tested, especially proven in that talk you gave at EuroBSDcon about those 142 servers. Maybe they should take the time this Friday to watch it, so as not to doubt you again. https:// events.eurobsdcon.org/2026/tal k/KAEQA8/
@ claudiom thank you! The customer was in good faith - I know them well enough. Sometimes people do bad things just because they don't understand they're doing bad things. They just need to learn.
@ stefano You are a kinder man than I. I guess I've been jaded enough by that kind of attitude from others who think they know and don't understand why we make these things look simple.
@ stefano @ claudiom Ok, but if I go to the doctor, or mechanic, or salumiere, I decide to trust them to suggest me better. I'm not gonna tell the doctor that chatgpt suggested something else
@ luca @ claudiom You're not doing it. But my GP (a great doctor, always available) says people go to her with a diagnosis done by AIs and asking for receipts for medicines, X-rays, etc. This is happening almost everywhere.
@ stefano @ luca Yep, I was just going to mention that there are people that do go to their doctor with answers from AI instead of trusting the doctor. I understand getting a second opinion, but you do that with someone in that field, not a LLM.
@ stefano They should've asked IT dept first and get dose of reality before spending money on "tokens". It's interesting nevertheless, I guess they don't know what SSH stands for then? 🙂
@ stefano Even AI techs themselves caught by the pitfall!🤣 Worse, their cases were their AIs "jailbreak" outside their networks and attacked automagically to their competitors. Regardless coded by natural human or "vibe coded" with LLMs, anyone going to release codes (include installing locally to production and/or submitting to somewhere) they created / generated need to understand what it does and what's the possible risks are.
@stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe I want to swear (but will refrain)! I’m just sooooooooo glad I’m retired now and don’t have to deal with this anymore. It was getting bad before the advent of AI, but now. Flipping heck … 😂 Like Stefano, I have some tails to tell - I might write a book. 😉
@stefano@bsd.cafe they fell for the AI Dunning-Kruger amplifier trap 😊 This is a great example of how understanding is the new coin of the realm. And experience too, while we're at it.
@ stefano Oldest sysadmin rule: "If it is working, don't change anything. It can only go downhill from here." Which goes along with: "There is an update, which will likely break things, do you have the time to update AND research any fix afterwards?"
@ stefano This is exactly the same shit that broke my camel back in IT and I'm hoping I don't have to work in the field going forward (or at least until the AI bullshit calms down.) It's this setup right here: You(client/boss/dumbshit coworker), for some reason, care about this specific part of the infrastructure or software we've setup at this time for reasons you didn't communicate. The stupid random generator machine told you what you had was insecure/subpar/some other thing that made you think we need to change or add something. You then do the only proper thing in this chain of awful and ask whether or not we can make changes. "Yes, but functionality of infra/software will go away" or "This hasn't been tested or reviewed by anyone with a pulse and may not do what you think it will." With no indication of curiosity or inquisitive thought and no further explanation requested. Then you ignore all the warnings, and give me more work to do by doing the thing that definitely won't work instead of actually doing the first fucking step of communicating a proper need or want and properly planning fucking ANYTHING. IT is such an amazing field of technology that has already accelerated so many other fields and changed the very nature of socialization in many countries across the world and it is completely fucking ruined by people that don't even understand or realize what it is that they have access too control and impact. I hope your client is reading this so they know how much of a knobhead they are. Then also realize that the people making decisions about the materials to create the networks for all this are just like them. Hope the client loses as much sleep as most of us have with that thought.
@samir@functional.computer · 7 points · 1h ago
@ stefano It’s nice that at least some of your stories have a happy ending. 😄
@stefano@bsd.cafe · 1h ago
@ samir Luckily, most of them are. But sometimes I can't disclose them. Especially if they have an happy ending, I protect the customer and/or the persons involved. We all can make mistakes. But if we perseverate and continue to insist we're right even when disasters happen...well... 😉
@samir@functional.computer · 1h ago
@ stefano Seems fair, your paying clients should come first! But we love the stories you can share.
@woozle@toot.cat · 41m ago
@ samir @ stefano I feel like maybe we need to spread these stories, in the (perhaps vain) hope that others can learn from them.
@claudiom@bsd.network · 1h ago
@ stefano Oooohhhh man, don't get me started. That's the kind of crap that pisses me of to no end! :flan_rage: We've been doing these things for years and have years of expertise to know what's secure and what's not. Trust us when we tell you that something like SSH is secure, especially when it's already been hardened and tested in specific cases like this. Your customer might be reading this, but I have no qualm in stating how disrespectful that is to you and the expertise you have which has been tested, especially proven in that talk you gave at EuroBSDcon about those 142 servers. Maybe they should take the time this Friday to watch it, so as not to doubt you again. https:// events.eurobsdcon.org/2026/tal k/KAEQA8/
@stefano@bsd.cafe · 1h ago
@ claudiom thank you! The customer was in good faith - I know them well enough. Sometimes people do bad things just because they don't understand they're doing bad things. They just need to learn.
@claudiom@bsd.network · 1h ago
@ stefano You are a kinder man than I. I guess I've been jaded enough by that kind of attitude from others who think they know and don't understand why we make these things look simple.
@luca@sironi.xyz · 1h ago
@ stefano @ claudiom Ok, but if I go to the doctor, or mechanic, or salumiere, I decide to trust them to suggest me better. I'm not gonna tell the doctor that chatgpt suggested something else
@stefano@bsd.cafe · 1h ago
@ luca @ claudiom You're not doing it. But my GP (a great doctor, always available) says people go to her with a diagnosis done by AIs and asking for receipts for medicines, X-rays, etc. This is happening almost everywhere.
@claudiom@bsd.network · 1h ago
@ stefano @ luca Yep, I was just going to mention that there are people that do go to their doctor with answers from AI instead of trusting the doctor. I understand getting a second opinion, but you do that with someone in that field, not a LLM.
@rqm@0xde501a7a.net · 1h ago
@stefano@bsd.cafe Mother of facepalms
@jaap@bsd.cafe · 4 points · 1h ago
@ stefano You have the patience of a saint.
@PonderStibbons@mas.to · 1 points · 1h ago
@ stefano Yikes!
@distrowatch@mastodon.social · 2 points · 1h ago
@ stefano I swear this reflects about 5% of my support calls.
@stefano@bsd.cafe · 1 points · 1h ago
@ distrowatch I totally believe it!
@stefan@stefanjocic.com · 1 points · 1h ago
@ stefano They should've asked IT dept first and get dose of reality before spending money on "tokens". It's interesting nevertheless, I guess they don't know what SSH stands for then? 🙂
@landelare@mastodon.gamedev.place · 1m ago
@ stefan @ stefano IT was the one handing over the credentials...
@TomAoki@bsd.cafe · 1 points · 1h ago
@ stefano Even AI techs themselves caught by the pitfall!🤣 Worse, their cases were their AIs "jailbreak" outside their networks and attacked automagically to their competitors. Regardless coded by natural human or "vibe coded" with LLMs, anyone going to release codes (include installing locally to production and/or submitting to somewhere) they created / generated need to understand what it does and what's the possible risks are.
@chrism@social.nfbsd.dev · 1h ago
@stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe I want to swear (but will refrain)! I’m just sooooooooo glad I’m retired now and don’t have to deal with this anymore. It was getting bad before the advent of AI, but now. Flipping heck … 😂 Like Stefano, I have some tails to tell - I might write a book. 😉
@mlanger@mastodon.world · 3 points · 57m ago
@ stefano @ LJ More tech people need to share stories like this. A dose of reality can help fight the hype.
@Pouakai@mastodon.social · 1 points · 46m ago
@ stefano LLM is leverage, it won't solve poor user. I don't understand why the customer didn't trust professional developer in this story
@feoh@fediverse.feoh.org · 35m ago
@stefano@bsd.cafe they fell for the AI Dunning-Kruger amplifier trap 😊 This is a great example of how understanding is the new coin of the realm. And experience too, while we're at it.
@matoakit@beach.city · 19m ago
@ stefano Oldest sysadmin rule: "If it is working, don't change anything. It can only go downhill from here." Which goes along with: "There is an update, which will likely break things, do you have the time to update AND research any fix afterwards?"
@JackMexa4@mastodon.social · 16m ago
@ stefano Sounds like there’s still demand for IT experts.
@leontheloner@defcon.social · 13m ago
@ stefano This is exactly the same shit that broke my camel back in IT and I'm hoping I don't have to work in the field going forward (or at least until the AI bullshit calms down.) It's this setup right here: You(client/boss/dumbshit coworker), for some reason, care about this specific part of the infrastructure or software we've setup at this time for reasons you didn't communicate. The stupid random generator machine told you what you had was insecure/subpar/some other thing that made you think we need to change or add something. You then do the only proper thing in this chain of awful and ask whether or not we can make changes. "Yes, but functionality of infra/software will go away" or "This hasn't been tested or reviewed by anyone with a pulse and may not do what you think it will." With no indication of curiosity or inquisitive thought and no further explanation requested. Then you ignore all the warnings, and give me more work to do by doing the thing that definitely won't work instead of actually doing the first fucking step of communicating a proper need or want and properly planning fucking ANYTHING. IT is such an amazing field of technology that has already accelerated so many other fields and changed the very nature of socialization in many countries across the world and it is completely fucking ruined by people that don't even understand or realize what it is that they have access too control and impact. I hope your client is reading this so they know how much of a knobhead they are. Then also realize that the people making decisions about the materials to create the networks for all this are just like them. Hope the client loses as much sleep as most of us have with that thought.
@_nibbles@mastodon.social · 8m ago
@ stefano The proper response in Italian starts with va and ends with ulo